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A Flop
Jun 24, 2009 16:38:56 GMT -5
Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 24, 2009 16:38:56 GMT -5
"Well yes, it does," he said. "But throughout history, various factions chose those aspects which they wished to consider the Truth, and abandoned others, all while stating the absolute authority of the book as divinely inspired. They also used those differences, and the assumed superiority of their views, to subjugate others. The Federation may have adopted certain values in common, but I trust it's from a more rational foundation. One that doesn't require quite so much patching up. And a more flexible one."
He set the book down and rose, smirking slightly--though somehow it wasn't exactly a directed look--at Spock's mention of chess. "Perhaps," he said. "But if we're going to be here awhile, I'm going to need some pancakes. Solid 20th century room. Certainly they've invented pancakes by now."
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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A Flop
Jun 24, 2009 17:36:30 GMT -5
Post by Spock on Jun 24, 2009 17:36:30 GMT -5
((You mean 20th c. room, right? I'm just going to assume that's what you meant. Or else Spock would feel the need to make a correction.))
Spock raised a brow. "I am familiar with much of Earth's history."
Spock had interpreted Kirk's initial comment, regarding tribalism and bigotry, as an implication that bigotry was inherent in the text itself. Spock thought that was definitely true to some degree, but that in other respects the book supported ideals that bore remarkable resemblance to values the Federation considered utmost. Many of these ideals had been corrupted throughout human history, but Spock had been referring to the text itself, not what its influence had been. After all, that influence, as Kirk stated, was no longer an appreciable power.
But Spock had never understood Earth fiction. He understood that humans were not always adept at working through a problem step by step, considering all variables to attain a logical solution, and that sometimes untrue suppositions or make-believe scenarios helped humans gain understanding or decipher solutions they otherwise could not reach. He also understood some humans took make-believe scenarios in fiction for truth, but he had always attributed that to human nature and not anything inherent in the texts themselves. Perhaps Kirk better understood the power of fiction and humans' connection with it. To Spock, it was just a book--powerless to cause harm, unless directed with some force at a person's head.
"I am less familiar with humanity's relation to fiction," he admitted, by way of explanation.
"If you are looking for a twentieth century Earth breakfast," he went on, "we should search the area around the motel. The way we came is the nineteenth century. It would be interesting to see how far the twentieth century readings extend before reverting in each direction. And to see whether there is a twentieth century eating establishment before the reversion."
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A Flop
Jun 24, 2009 17:48:59 GMT -5
Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 24, 2009 17:48:59 GMT -5
((Yes, thank you. I have the problem, not him.))
"Ah," Kirk said, because he hadn't been able to latch onto exactly what about his response had been insufficient for Spock's understanding of his point. "That's the problem: the Federation's charters and regulations were written by intelligent beings who reasoned out what to say and how to say it, understanding its purpose and its eventual place in society. And that those elements might alter, as the situation did, after much deliberation. A religious text, like this one, with its origins murky at best, was considered truth despite its discrepancies and the harm that was done it its name. It wasn't treated as fiction--not by everyone, anyway. As stories, they're useful to human society and understanding. As an actual guide to living it proved... inadequate."
Kirk's stomach was making its needs known, and while the sound wasn't audible to him he knew the Vulcan probably could hear it. He nodded.
"I won't hold this place to the pancake thing," he said, even though he really, really wanted them. "But we should, most definitely, determine the range of influence of this time period. Ready?"
It was a stupid question, but though Kirk had been deliberately avoiding questions with obvious answers it was likely he'd miss one or two.
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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A Flop
Jun 24, 2009 18:21:25 GMT -5
Post by Spock on Jun 24, 2009 18:21:25 GMT -5
((Is it just me, or have we totally RP'ed a religious debate before? I'm getting UNCANNY deja vu.
Also, I think Spock's brain is about to break.))
"That is fascinating," Spock told Kirk, because it really was. "I have only considered a book such as that in an objective light. However, to do so may not be wholly logical, because it does not take into account humanity's susceptibility to its precepts."
Spock had everything, but looked around the room to make sure they had left it neat, that there was nothing else to scan, and that Jim had everything too. "I am ready," he said, and they exited. "Why do you like pancakes?"
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A Flop
Jun 24, 2009 18:31:37 GMT -5
Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 24, 2009 18:31:37 GMT -5
((I don't remember doing so!
Poor Spock.))
"We're not the only species," Kirk pointed out. "I'll try to explain better--when we've got some breakfast." He patted his stomach lightly as if to illustrate where it would go. Spock had just said it would not be logical to go at something objectively. Kirk needed food if he was going to deal with shocks like that. He closed the door and locked it with the primitive metal key, which he pocketed--it didn't make sense to check out yet, not knowing where they were or what their plans were.
"Pancakes," he said, "are filling, fluffy, and really good at holding up vast amounts of syrup."
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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A Flop
Jun 24, 2009 18:40:54 GMT -5
Post by Spock on Jun 24, 2009 18:40:54 GMT -5
((I LOLed. FOR REALZ.))
"I would inquire into the merits of syrup, but would most likely receive a similarly inscrutable answer." Spock didn't know why he bothered. Well, he did know. It was because Jim was more interesting than most. "Let's ask the clerk. There are no doubt others who wish to know the closest place to procure a breakfast. Though she was not forthcoming last night."
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A Flop
Jun 24, 2009 20:37:48 GMT -5
Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 24, 2009 20:37:48 GMT -5
((Seriously I'm going to have to request Shatnoy with pancakes or something now.))
Kirk laughed gently at Spock's assessment of his answer. "Well, if you try it, you won't have to inquire," Kirk pointed out, suddenly intrigued by the thought of watching Spock try syrup for the first time despite the fact that Spock probably wouldn't care. Or wouldn't show it, anyway. "She wasn't, but perhaps with a direct question, she'll warm up."
Just to make sure she knew he was friendly, Kirk smiled at the woman when they entered the office. "Do you know where we can get some pancakes?"
She smiled, barely, but looked blank. Kirk raised his hands, putting them palm to palm, close together. "Thin, uh, bread, breakfast food, with butter or syrup or fruit on it?"
"Do you mean crepes?" she asked, as if speaking to an attractive, but simple, child.
"Sure," Kirk said, really hungry now and figuring that if it was what he'd described, he'd be fine with that. She gave them directions, he nodded and thanked her with a grin and left, shutting the door behind them.
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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A Flop
Jun 25, 2009 0:31:20 GMT -5
Post by Spock on Jun 25, 2009 0:31:20 GMT -5
"I am not curious about the taste," Spock elucidated. "I'm curious about your reaction to it." They walked in the direction the woman had indicated.
Spock often did not explain himself, as he usually didn't see the need, but he realized that the human way was to make conversation. And they were more or less confined to each other's company. Spock had expounded several times during his interactions with Kirk when he otherwise wouldn't have.
"I do not have any feeling towards eating," Spock explained. "Since I can survive on vegetable matter alone I think it wise to respect other life forms by avoiding consumption of them, but this is my only preference regarding sustenance. I understand that humans either feel differently or experience the taste of food differently, or some combination thereof. To go out of one's way in order to find a particular food seems to me illogical, but for a human it is only natural."
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A Flop
Jun 25, 2009 0:37:19 GMT -5
Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 25, 2009 0:37:19 GMT -5
Kirk glanced at him for a moment. "That's... nice of you to say, Mr. Spock," he said, because his own Spock was frequently insulting when he was just being... observant. That's what he wanted Kirk to believe, anyway, Kirk was convinced. "We humans like to eat. It gives us pleasure. Presumably to encourage us to seek out a variety of foods in order to obtain a wide variety of nutrients. Admittedly pointless now, as the replicators on the Enterprise attest, but there's a certain... emotional satisfaction to good food, and home cooking, that humans respond to. As well as a sense of camaraderie in the sharing of food. It's as much a social activity as anything else."
He nodded ahead at the restaurant.
"Besides, it's not out of the way. And you should be curious about the taste. Why not? It's just another experience. And it's not made of animals." Kirk thought about that. He'd traveled a lot. "Usually."
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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A Flop
Jun 25, 2009 1:13:46 GMT -5
Post by Spock on Jun 25, 2009 1:13:46 GMT -5
Spock wasn't sure how stating that humans were by nature illogical was nice. Then again since humans were so often nonsensical, Spock could well imagine one might be flattered by being called so.
"It makes sense that natural selection might cause an impulse to seek out diverse foods to evolve. However as you point out it is now rendered pointless, and so pointless to follow it."
They entered the restaurant.
"I am open to experiences which may teach or provide knowledge or be in some way beneficial. Knowing how one thing or another tastes is of no interest to me." Spock looked around. Some people were at little tables eating what looked like the things Kirk had described. "I also don't eat anything produced by animals. Milk," he clarified. "Or eggs."
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A Flop
Jun 25, 2009 10:43:15 GMT -5
Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 25, 2009 10:43:15 GMT -5
((LOL he was referring to the "only natural" part, which Kirk sees as a hard-won concession.))
Kirk shrugged, relenting. "Humans do many pointless things," he admitted with a smile. "I happen to value a great many of them. I like to think of it as... embracing my own humanity." They were nodded towards a table, and Kirk sat. "You may have difficulty finding much to eat in a place like this," he said, meaning not just this restaurant but any approximation of old Earth. "Milk and eggs are contained in many baked goods." He felt bad, for a moment, for not thinking about this before. But then, what sort of restaurant in the 19th, or even mid-20th, centuries was vegan?
"Maybe we should just find a market," he suggested. "Then we could pick up exactly what we wanted."
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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A Flop
Jun 25, 2009 14:24:09 GMT -5
Post by Spock on Jun 25, 2009 14:24:09 GMT -5
((I thought as much; it's just that I don't think Spock would see 'only natural' as a concession; for him it's a condemnation. i.e. 'I expect humans to behave irrationally.' Dunno, maybe I worded it wrong.))
"We are here, and you desired pancakes. The most efficient option is to remain. Surely there is fruit available."
As they were seated Spock scanned the surroundings. They were indeed back to 19th c.
"It would be prudent to obtain provisions for later in the day at such a market, but I do not think your funds will allow that. Do you think we will reach Lorien before we require further sustenance?"
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A Flop
Jun 25, 2009 17:58:51 GMT -5
Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 25, 2009 17:58:51 GMT -5
((No, I don't think the problem is you or I, but that they would interpret things differently.))
"I certainly hope so," Kirk said. "It seems like it shouldn't have taken us so long to get as far as we did--but I couldn't swear to that. We'll start out as soon as we're done here." He scanned the menu, glancing at the flimsy crepes at the table next to them. There was a slight frown of disappointment on his face. These were not pancakes. But he had a solution.
When he ordered, he opted for a plateful and, with a boyish grin, requested a delightful-sounding chocolate-hazelnut spread inside and plentiful whipped cream on top. "Don't skimp," he said with a dazzling smile, before looking at Spock. "Find something?"
((What they totally have Nutella!!))
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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A Flop
Jun 25, 2009 23:08:03 GMT -5
Post by Spock on Jun 25, 2009 23:08:03 GMT -5
((I was going to say Spock should know about his chocolate problem, because of course he would, so of course there's no way he'd eat any. But in the interests of 'verse inanity I think he should. But he's not going to order it. So SOMEONE has to find a way to feed it to him. If you want. Just sayin'.))
Without realizing it, Spock was momentarily distracted by Kirk's smile. He wondered whether the expression was really because he was so happy at the prospect of the food, or whether he thought it would get him what he wanted.
Still without quite realizing it, Spock thought if the latter were the case, Kirk might just be right.
Then he glanced down at the menu, and then to the waitress, and ordered the assorted fruit and side of bread.
When the waiter had left, Spock said, "We should make a contingency plan, in case for whatever reason we are unable to reach the wood this evening."
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A Flop
Jun 26, 2009 0:51:59 GMT -5
Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 26, 2009 0:51:59 GMT -5
((DO WANT. Now? I mean, today? Or should we save that? Maybe the hazelnut masks it long enough?
BTW the answer to Spock's initial curiosity is BOTH.))
Kirk's initial impulse was to deny the possibility that they wouldn't make it by the evening. He'd walked to the Opera in a day, and he knew where Lorien was, so there was no reason they shouldn't make it back.
But he couldn't trust the laws of geography and time to behave, not here, and so after a short pause he nodded.
"Agreed. We can't count on the normal laws applying--which makes plans of any type difficult. But we should explore the possibilities. Without money, we're more or less adrift. If we thought we could find our way back to our respective universes in the next few days, it wouldn't be an issue. The question is: do we think we will? If not, money is, unfortunately, a priority."
Additionally, there was no promise in Lorien, either. Kirk would have to get back eventually, but arriving there would not solve the problem of how to get home.
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