Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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Post by Spock on Jun 17, 2009 16:13:50 GMT -5
"Of course. I wholly agree. Real combat at times necessitates a deviation from pre-established forms. Not to stray from said forms would be narrow-minded, were the lives of your crew at stake. However, there are times in reality when even such deviation will not permit you to 'win', as it were. There are times when no matter what rules you dispense with, absolutely no victory is possible.
"Therefore accepting that particular parameter--the impossibility of winning--in circumstances such as a simulation, is beneficial. One learns the best way to comport one's self in a no-win situation. The Kobayashi Maru is beneficial. Playing chess against a computer which will always defeat you is beneficial. Losing rounds without beating your opponent over the head with the board is--Captain--beneficial."
Spock examined the board. The game was sufficiently more complex, now, though Spock was aware he was still losing. It was fascinating. He had not felt so at ease since--since he had been arguing against the other Kirk at the Kobayashi Maru hearing in front of the Council, before they had received the distress signals from Vulcan.
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Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 17, 2009 16:23:15 GMT -5
((*wibble*))
"I'm afraid we're just going to have to disagree about that, Mr. Spock," Kirk said without a trace of dismay. This felt familiar and good and he was winning again but despite all his talk about no-win situations he was looking forward to losing again one day. If only to see Mr. Spock's face when it happened. "Not about the chess, or the computer, or losing in general. But I could argue that I did comport myself in the best possible manner, by refusing defeat and calmly, rationally, doing what I had to do. That way I learned about defeat and even more about myself. But you won't agree with me, Mr. Spock. It's one of the things I value about your service."
Damn it, he'd meant the other one. But Spock would know that.
"I'm not your captain," he said, moving his bishop. "You'd better call me Jim."
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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Post by Spock on Jun 17, 2009 16:38:43 GMT -5
((OMG I was waiting for the 'call me Jim' moment!!!<--three of them! I wibble back.))
Spock found his own reaction to the words "your service" strange. Of course the captain meant the other Spock. It made Spock think about the Kirk he was supposed to be serving under. A part of him was looking forward to returning to his own universe, not just because it was where he logically belonged, or because his job aboard the Enterprise was constructive. He was looking forward to serving under Kirk, even if it was the other Kirk, because it was the other Kirk, discovering all the qualities in him shared and not shared by the Kirk before him, defeating him soundly at chess, playing until that Kirk improved to the point at which they were evenly matched.
But a part of Spock did not relish the idea of returning to his own universe, because this Kirk would be left behind, or go back to his own. Spock did not have to seek out the qualities which interested him in this Kirk. They were already right there on the surface.
'Jim' for this one seemed fitting.
"You are correct; I would disagree with you." Amusement showed again in Spock's eyes, even as the Kirk's bishop put Spock open for check in four moves. Spock moved a pawn. "I would argue you were being most humanly obtuse, Jim."
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Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 17, 2009 16:47:33 GMT -5
((OUR MINDS. THEY ARE MELDED.))
For his park, Kirk was finding the mix of new and familiar in this byplay fascinating. It was interesting, for one, that he enjoyed the man's presence so much. Not surprising, exactly. But was it because he saw in him the seeds of what Mr. Spock would become? Or were those qualities just inherent, calling to him regardless of the pre-existing non-relationship? Had he been drawn to his own Mr. Spock right away? It seemed that way now, and in truth Kirk was the sort of person to give most new acquaintances the benefit of the doubt.
Or maybe it was just the interest this Spock showed in him, the unconscious mirror of Spock's exploration.
He took the pawn, not arguing. "A quality which has saved my life on more than one occasion," he said, unaccountably warmed by the use of his name. Maybe it was just the reassurance that their mutual respect traversed universes.
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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Post by Spock on Jun 17, 2009 17:30:24 GMT -5
((their mutual respect traversed universes. <--Eee! We are awesome.))
Rarely, if ever, had Spock found pleasure in disagreeing with a human. Usually, if such disagreements occurred, the person in question either did not comprehend Spock's logic, or refused to accept it. But Jim was clever enough to grasp it, and he was by no means refuting it. He merely . . . held a different viewpoint.
Which seemed irrational. But due to Jim's obvious intellect and open-mindedness, Spock kept looking for an explanation. The attempt was even more pleasurable to him than the chess game.
Spock took Jim's own pawn, knowing that in the ensuing re-trade, he would not come out with the advantage. "That quality has saved the life of your young counterpart. And myself. And Earth. It is most fascinating."
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Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 17, 2009 17:43:49 GMT -5
"In that order?" Kirk grinned. "Chip off the old block, huh." He watched the board for a moment, and made his move. When he moved it was decisive, even when there were pauses in play. "Don't let up," he advised. "On him, I mean. I know you didn't exactly ask for advice, and he's going to do what he damn well pleases anyway, but he needs to hear it."
His eyes flickered back up to Spock's face, full of humor. "Just don't tell him I said that. Not because of the paradox thing. I just don't think he'd appreciate it. I wouldn't." The discrepancy in his statements didn't seem to bother him one bit.
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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Post by Spock on Jun 17, 2009 17:57:09 GMT -5
Spock considered the grin. Jim acted as though saving Spock and Earth was nothing new. Spock raised a brow.
"To 'let up' would be illogical. However, to remain inflexible would be similarly so. Check," he added, moving his knight. Jim, of course, had put himself in that position on purpose. Spock was still going to lose. "I won't tell your counterpart, unless he asks. I can understand an aversion to being told what to do by another version of yourself. However, as you previously noted, I also have an aversion to deception."
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Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 17, 2009 18:06:09 GMT -5
Kirk moved easily out of check, not taking the bait Spock had set up. He waved a hand dismissively.
"Oh, I didn't mean any deception had to be involved," he said. "Once I said it, I got to thinking about how I'd have felt about that kind of information. I'd feel worse about being lied to, though." He paused, seemingly deep in thought. "I have to say," he continued finally, "I'm a little put out by this Earth-saving business. I didn't start that sort of thing until my thirties."
He grinned at Spock, his expression not put out at all.
"To be fair, though, I guess I've never really saved Earth. Specifically."
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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Post by Spock on Jun 17, 2009 18:15:52 GMT -5
Spock's other brow was climbing. "To what, then, do you refer? Specifically."
Jim would checkmate him in seven moves, now. Spock attempted another trap that would push it to eleven.
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Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 17, 2009 18:25:36 GMT -5
"Well," he said, smiling with boyish sheepishness, "one doesn't like to brag..."
Kirk avoided the trap, but it involved a detour. Nine moves. His expression grew more serious.
"I'm kidding. It was never just me, anyway; the crew of the Enterprise are the best damn officers I've ever worked with. I've never saved Earth, but together we've steered history itself back onto its correct course. Usually after inadvertently screwing it up, and winking, say, the entire Federation out of existence. There wasn't really any other option but to succeed."
It was interesting that the destruction of Vulcan had prompted the younger him onto a similar path so much earlier. He wondered if much of the fleet had been destroyed. He wondered how his life would have been different. He wondered if this one event was all that accounted for it. However much he loved his life now, he'd certainly never trade Vulcan and the other casualties for an even earlier command.
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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Post by Spock on Jun 17, 2009 18:44:00 GMT -5
It was settled then, nine moves, the only way to change it being to lose in even fewer. Spock played them out, done with the board now, instead studying Jim.
Jim was the same as his game. Once Spock thought he could predict what Jim might say or what his reactions would be Jim would say things that were entirely unexpected. They should have been incredible, but Jim did not appear to be 'kidding' now.
The most difficult thing to understand was that he spoke so casually, when he had already proven himself a highly expressive man. It was as if 'screwing up' the course of history, and then rectifying it, was of every day significance.
"Did the Federation 'wink' out of existence? Or is that meant to be a humorous example?"
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Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 17, 2009 23:42:19 GMT -5
It wasn't exactly that such events were an "every day" occurrence. Kirk hadn't lost sight of the significance of those things, or the cost of them. But it wasn't something that he felt required great drama in the mention of them. Perhaps, with a few glasses of Saurian brandy in him and a captive audience, he'd tell the tales animatedly, with the fire called for. But he was also not trying to one-up the exploits of his counterpart, or Mr. Spock. They had happened, and everything had come out all right in the end. Mostly.
"It wasn't humorous," Kirk said. "It's amazing what tiny details can change, hundreds of years in the future. An accident, a child not born, and wars are won or lost, inventions go undiscovered. Perhaps not as a direct result, but building upon that one event. I don't mean to be flippant, Mr. Spock. What's surprising is how like our two worlds are, considering the drastic alterations wrought by one man in the wrong place at the right time."
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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Post by Spock on Jun 18, 2009 0:15:58 GMT -5
Spock puzzled over this.
"One man--or several--caused the difference in our two worlds. But I had surmised they also caused two worlds to exist--my elder counterpart's, in which Nero from 2387 never arrived in 2233, and mine, in which Nero did. If these two worlds did not coexist, then my elder counterpart would have met himself already when he was my age. He implied this was not the case. Unless he lied again.
"In this instance, changing the past did not cause the future to alter; it merely created an alternate universe. But you are saying there were circumstances in which the past was altered, and you saw the alterations reflected in the present? This is most fascinating."
Spock thought Jim might be referring to Guardian of Forever that he had previously mentioned. He had no wish to pry, but he was interested in the metaphysics of the thing. He would leave it up to Jim to decide what he wanted to say on the topic, if he wanted to mention it at all.
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Post by James T. Kirk on Jun 18, 2009 0:42:07 GMT -5
Kirk nodded.
"It's possible that two worlds may have been created--that there are offshoots comprised of every possible world, from every possible decision or accident. It's possible that the same thing happened with the Guardian of Forever, or when we picked up a pilot from centuries ago whose son--then not yet conceived--turned out to be an important man. The pilot was returned before damage could be done. But with the Guardian, those of us in its vicinity--the Enterprise, in orbit, not included--were unaffected, even as everything around us changed. If the universe split off into its variants, we were naturally not aware of it. And I have, indeed, traveled between my universe and another.
"The point is that in your case, the older Mr. Spock traveled between alternatives, and did not return. Time continued on two streams. And not enough time has yet passed to determine how extensive the differences will be. In the instance I mentioned, we were flung far enough into the past--and were able to determine the 'new' future well enough--to know that as far as we could tell our entire civilization had vanished. I can only assume that it was our proximity to the machine that kept us from vanishing as well. If there was an alternative timeline to jump into, it was not within our power to enter it."
He hadn't had a choice. Spock had made that clear.
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Spock
- Ingenious Pilot -
Apparently he's GQ?%\0\%
Posts: 142
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Post by Spock on Jun 18, 2009 14:41:51 GMT -5
Spock nodded. "That was my hypothesis: that the mechanism of time travel preserved yourselves as you were, unaffected by the changes in the timeline which did change the rest of the universe. In that case, the means by which the elder Spock traveled to my time could have preserved him--and the Narada--as they had been in their own time, but the changes they have made to the timeline may have changed everything else. That is, the reality they know may have ceased to exist, except for themselves, the only remnants of it." It would mean the elder Spock could never return to the world he knew, even if he found a method, because the possibility of that future no longer existed. It also meant, that if there was only one reality, and that reality was Spock's own present, this Kirk could not return home, either.
Spock looked down at the board. Jim's next move would achieve checkmate. Spock picked up his king and put it on its side. "Your play is most enlightening."
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